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Post by Worldquest on Jan 15, 2012 0:13:45 GMT
What do you mean it didn't come into existence? That it was always there? Sure that is possible. But what does always mean? Time is a concept that we use to make sense of our experience. What does "always" mean to you?
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Post by flyingteapot on Jan 15, 2012 0:28:21 GMT
What do you mean it didn't come into existence? That it was always there? Sure that is possible. But what does always mean? Time is a concept that we use to make sense of our experience. What does "always" mean to you? No, in the mathematical sense, Time is a construct to define the outward propagation of light from when the universe came into existence. Hence the use of light years to define distance in space. Always to me is a meaningless term.
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Post by Worldquest on Jan 15, 2012 0:31:53 GMT
Time is a concept that we use to make sense of our experience. What does "always" mean to you? No, in the mathematical sense, Time is a construct to define the outward propagation of light from when the universe came into existence. Hence the use of light years to define distance in space. Always to me is a meaningless term. What you're describing is your experience of time. In order to function in this physical universe and to organise information and experience, we use the concept of time. And with it comes concepts like always, now, before, after, etc.
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Post by flyingteapot on Jan 15, 2012 0:37:03 GMT
No, in the mathematical sense, Time is a construct to define the outward propagation of light from when the universe came into existence. Hence the use of light years to define distance in space. Always to me is a meaningless term. What you're describing is your experience of time. In order to function in this physical universe and to organise information and experience, we use the concept of time. And with it comes concepts like always, now, before, after, etc. I am certain no scientist would have ever come up with the term "always". It is meaningless to our understanding of the universe. "Always" is relative at best. Same with "now". By the time I finish typing "now", it has already moved into the past. "Now" is also a meaningless concept.
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Post by Worldquest on Jan 15, 2012 0:43:54 GMT
With the concept of time comes concepts associated with time, such as "always", and "now". They exist in that we use them, we need them to function as long as we have the concept of time. In that sense they're not meaningless. We know what they mean and what they relate to.
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Post by flyingteapot on Jan 15, 2012 0:50:55 GMT
With the concept of time comes concepts associated with time, such as "always", and "now". They exist in that we use them, we need them to function as long as we have the concept of time. In that sense they're not meaningless. We know what they mean and what they relate to. Then I would invite you to explain what "always" and "now" mean.
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Post by Worldquest on Jan 15, 2012 0:52:07 GMT
With the concept of time comes concepts associated with time, such as "always", and "now". They exist in that we use them, we need them to function as long as we have the concept of time. In that sense they're not meaningless. We know what they mean and what they relate to. Then I would invite you to explain what "always" and "now" mean. You know what they mean. Everyone knows what they mean.
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Post by flyingteapot on Jan 15, 2012 1:03:40 GMT
Then I would invite you to explain what "always" and "now" mean. You know what they mean. Everyone knows what they mean. I told you why I think they are meaningless. Explain these concepts to me. Assume I was born today and I don't know anything.
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timo
Newbie
oyeme
Posts: 37
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Post by timo on Jan 15, 2012 1:06:09 GMT
@waymaker
Dude, please read my posts before you respond to them. I've already dealt with these points. I have countered them by pointing out that:
1.) You've provided no evidence that the Roman or Jewish authority "shredded" references made to Christ. Indeed, if you take the Josephus quote at face value then the fact that it survived directly contradicts your shredding hypothesis. Furthermore, the fact that the New Testament and the apocrypha exists to this day kind of calls into question whether or not the authorities could have done this if they wanted to. (There are more than 27 books. There are other books that didn't make the cut.) 2.) The passage from Josephus itself is the closest thing to a contemporary, extra-Biblical reference to Christ that there is but it's most likely a forgery. After all, he's calling Jesus the Christ. But Josephus wasn't a Christian. If anything, he was committed to the position that Vaspacian, his patron, was the Christ and therefore would be unlikely to write that about Jesus in that way. Furthermore, the passage is never cited by Origen despite the fact that he knew the work. We don't find this quote until Eusibius a few centuries later. 3.) The Koran and the Babylonian Talmud were written long after Jesus died. They're not close to contemporary. 4.) The Dead Sea Scrolls don't reference Jesus, unless you want to argue that the Hebrew Bible anticipates Christ in which case the references found therein aren't exactly surprising.
Again, if you're going to respond, please take the time to read my posts. I've already read and responded to that bit you just reposted.
Peace
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Post by Worldquest on Jan 15, 2012 1:11:02 GMT
You know what they mean. Everyone knows what they mean. I told you why I think they are meaningless. Explain these concepts to me. Assume I was born today and I don't know anything. Do you use those concepts ever? Rather than assume you were born yesterday, I'm going to assume that you were not and that you do use them, and that you therefore know what they mean. Why do you think they're meaningless whilst using them?
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Post by flyingteapot on Jan 15, 2012 1:27:18 GMT
I told you why I think they are meaningless. Explain these concepts to me. Assume I was born today and I don't know anything. Do you use those concepts ever? Rather than assume you were born yesterday, I'm going to assume that you were not and that you do use them, and that you therefore know what they mean. Why do you think they're meaningless whilst using them? I can use the word wizard. I know what it means. But the concept of"wizard" is meaningless to us. What I should have said to make my meaning clearer is I find the concepts "now" and "always" meaningless.
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Post by Worldquest on Jan 15, 2012 1:28:47 GMT
You use those words in everyday life. Of course you don't find them meaningless.
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Post by flyingteapot on Jan 15, 2012 1:32:36 GMT
You use those words in everyday life. Of course you don't find them meaningless. Okay, I feel we are going around in circles. You don't seem to understand what I am saying. I am saying "explain the concept of now to me". I know what the word now means. I don't see how the concept is meaningful. What is now? Does now have a specified time frame to be classified as now. Does it have to be 10 seconds long? or less? or more? When does now become then? when does now go from the present to the past?
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Post by Worldquest on Jan 15, 2012 21:05:15 GMT
We're going round in circles because you keep asking me to explain those concepts yet you already understand them. If you want to pose philosophical questions about those concepts that's fine, but it would help if you offered some possibilities, but you can't really say that they're meaningless if you use them in everyday life. Why do you ask what they mean? What makes you think they may be meaningless? What should they mean? If you some thoughts about that, go ahead and mention them. But it's not me asking those questions, it's you.
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Post by flyingteapot on Jan 15, 2012 21:13:09 GMT
We're going round in circles because you keep asking me to explain those concepts yet you already understand them. If you want to pose philosophical questions about those concepts that's fine, but it would help if you offered some possibilities, but you can't really say that they're meaningless if you use them in everyday life. Why do you ask what they mean? What makes you think they may be meaningless? What should they mean? If you some thoughts about that, go ahead and mention them. But it's not me asking those questions, it's you. I don't know what they are supposed to mean. That is why I am asking questions. You are not addressing my questions at all. You are simply assuming that I know what the words mean. I am telling you I don't know. Why is that so hard for you to understand? I've noticed this trend before. You seem to think that everyone sees the world exactly as you do. This is not the case. Different people have different perspectives. I am giving you mine and you keep rejecting it. What's up with that?
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