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Post by Greatestiam on Jan 4, 2012 21:19:06 GMT
Is a religion based on human sacrifice moral and ethical?
Over the ages, a number of pagan religions have based their theology around the notion that God needs or wants sacrifices. This phenomena has been recorded on many continents from various tribes and peoples who had no knowledge of each other.
I find it strange that God, any God, would be pleased or able to be bribed by some sacrifice, be it human or not. Seems like it is just humans thinking they can somehow change God’s mind about anything from the weather, the forgiveness of sin or a better crop.
Can God be bribed by accepting burnt offerings such as virgins being thrown into volcanoes, meat or crops?
Can God be bought off so cheaply?
What of Jesus our brother?
Psalm 49:7 None of them can by any means redeem his brother, nor give to God a ransom for him:
If Christianity is based on human sacrifice, it seems to me that that would be immoral and unethical. It would mean that the innocent was murdered while the guilty were allowed to walk away. That is not good justice. Good justice says that the guilty pay and the innocent go free.
Is religious human sacrifice moral, ethical and good justice?
Regards DL
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Bayes
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Post by Bayes on Jan 5, 2012 17:37:15 GMT
I would say that a religion based on SELF sacrifice certainly has a claim to morality. Traditional Aztec beliefs included self mutilation and other forms of self sacrifice, including actual death at one's own hand, in order to show one's devotion to the gods. This became corrupted, as often happens with religions and by the time the Aztec empire was conquered by the Spanish they were conquering other people in order to sacrifice them.
I don't think Christ's sacrifice and Christians acceptance of it can be considered immoral, Christ chose his death according to the new testament and did so in order to redeem those who choose to be redeemed by him.
Whether this works, and whether it is in accordance with the Jewish tradition that Christ arose in is a different question, but I do not think that the sacrifice aspect is, in itself, immoral.
The consumption of Christ's blood and body, even metaphorically, is another tricky question. I don't think it is wrong in any concrete, impartial way, but it does go against the Jewish proscription against the consumption of the flesh of a sacrifice.
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Post by Greatestiam on Jan 5, 2012 20:29:53 GMT
Thanks for this. It is for sure that the Christian view does not line up with the Jeysish one. There messiah was to live and not die for starters and was to live and lead them. As to the sacrifice itself; it goes counter to what the bible says God wants. Have a look. www.youtube.com/watch?v=YoHP-f-_F9UI think we agree on the cannibalistic eating of Jesus. Better to waste the meat. Regards DL
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Post by flyingteapot on Jan 15, 2012 0:10:22 GMT
Is a religion based on human sacrifice moral and ethical? Over the ages, a number of pagan religions have based their theology around the notion that God needs or wants sacrifices. This phenomena has been recorded on many continents from various tribes and peoples who had no knowledge of each other. I find it strange that God, any God, would be pleased or able to be bribed by some sacrifice, be it human or not. Seems like it is just humans thinking they can somehow change God’s mind about anything from the weather, the forgiveness of sin or a better crop. Can God be bribed by accepting burnt offerings such as virgins being thrown into volcanoes, meat or crops? Can God be bought off so cheaply? What of Jesus our brother? Psalm 49:7 None of them can by any means redeem his brother, nor give to God a ransom for him: If Christianity is based on human sacrifice, it seems to me that that would be immoral and unethical. It would mean that the innocent was murdered while the guilty were allowed to walk away. That is not good justice. Good justice says that the guilty pay and the innocent go free. Is religious human sacrifice moral, ethical and good justice? Regards DL No. Self sacrifice is not immoral perhaps, it is certainly stupid. God is supposed to be perfect. A perfect being does not need anything, much less a puny human's devotion or love.
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Bayes
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Posts: 206
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Post by Bayes on Jan 18, 2012 20:07:41 GMT
Is a religion based on human sacrifice moral and ethical? Over the ages, a number of pagan religions have based their theology around the notion that God needs or wants sacrifices. This phenomena has been recorded on many continents from various tribes and peoples who had no knowledge of each other. I find it strange that God, any God, would be pleased or able to be bribed by some sacrifice, be it human or not. Seems like it is just humans thinking they can somehow change God’s mind about anything from the weather, the forgiveness of sin or a better crop. Can God be bribed by accepting burnt offerings such as virgins being thrown into volcanoes, meat or crops? Can God be bought off so cheaply? What of Jesus our brother? Psalm 49:7 None of them can by any means redeem his brother, nor give to God a ransom for him: If Christianity is based on human sacrifice, it seems to me that that would be immoral and unethical. It would mean that the innocent was murdered while the guilty were allowed to walk away. That is not good justice. Good justice says that the guilty pay and the innocent go free. Is religious human sacrifice moral, ethical and good justice? Regards DL No. Self sacrifice is not immoral perhaps, it is certainly stupid. God is supposed to be perfect. A perfect being does not need anything, much less a puny human's devotion or love. Supposed to be according to who? Most Pagan gods are not supposed to be perfect beings.
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Post by flyingteapot on Jan 19, 2012 2:14:40 GMT
Alright, then it is just stupid then IMO.
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Post by Greatestiam on Jan 19, 2012 19:53:44 GMT
Is a religion based on human sacrifice moral and ethical? Over the ages, a number of pagan religions have based their theology around the notion that God needs or wants sacrifices. This phenomena has been recorded on many continents from various tribes and peoples who had no knowledge of each other. I find it strange that God, any God, would be pleased or able to be bribed by some sacrifice, be it human or not. Seems like it is just humans thinking they can somehow change God’s mind about anything from the weather, the forgiveness of sin or a better crop. Can God be bribed by accepting burnt offerings such as virgins being thrown into volcanoes, meat or crops? Can God be bought off so cheaply? What of Jesus our brother? Psalm 49:7 None of them can by any means redeem his brother, nor give to God a ransom for him: If Christianity is based on human sacrifice, it seems to me that that would be immoral and unethical. It would mean that the innocent was murdered while the guilty were allowed to walk away. That is not good justice. Good justice says that the guilty pay and the innocent go free. Is religious human sacrifice moral, ethical and good justice? Regards DL No. Self sacrifice is not immoral perhaps, it is certainly stupid. God is supposed to be perfect. A perfect being does not need anything, much less a puny human's devotion or love. + 1 Regards DL
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Post by rjh01 on Jan 19, 2012 21:32:13 GMT
This is too tempting to ignore. The answer is that it all depends. For example if there was a major draught and people were going to starve to death it makes sense to kill the unproductive (children, young women) early on so that the rest of the society can live. This is what may have happened 3,000 years ago. Today we will never have such a disaster and so we find the thought wrong. This is one reason why we should not look towards the bible to tell us the difference between right and wrong.
Self sacrifice, well I think I will not eat that cream bun even though I would enjoy it because if I did it might make me sick in 20 years time. Is that stupid?
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Post by Greatestiam on Jan 20, 2012 17:18:03 GMT
I do not call killing unproductive people a sacrifice. I call it a desparate act of self-preservation.
Regards DL
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Post by flyingteapot on Jan 20, 2012 20:25:11 GMT
Sacrifice by definition has to be self sacrifice, otherwise it isn't much of a sacrifice. Killing off the unproductive is certainly not sacrifice, it is selfish. You are giving up something by sacrificing. Killing others to make your life better is giving up their lives to makes yours better.
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Post by flyingteapot on Jan 20, 2012 20:27:20 GMT
Sacrifice by definition has to be something that affects you negatively, otherwise it isn't much of a sacrifice. Killing off the unproductive is certainly not sacrifice, it is selfish. You are giving up something by sacrificing. Killing others to make your life better does not fall under this category.
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Post by Greatestiam on Jan 21, 2012 18:55:19 GMT
Sacrifice by definition has to be self sacrifice, otherwise it isn't much of a sacrifice. Killing off the unproductive is certainly not sacrifice, it is selfish. You are giving up something by sacrificing. Killing others to make your life better is giving up their lives to makes yours better. + 1 Rather like those who line up to ride their scapegoat Jesus. I think it immoral to try to profit from the murder of an innocent man by a God who planed it when there was no need for it. Regards DL
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Post by paarsurrey on Jan 24, 2012 1:19:59 GMT
Is a religion based on human sacrifice moral and ethical?
No; it is neither moral not ethical.
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Post by Greatestiam on Jan 24, 2012 20:28:38 GMT
I hope that you are including the Abrahamic religions in your statement and that you recognize them as immoral.
Are you?
Regards DL
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Bayes
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Posts: 206
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Post by Bayes on Jan 24, 2012 20:59:42 GMT
Neither Judaism nor Islam includes human sacrifice. Judaism did traditionally include animal sacrifice, but I don't think it does any longer.
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