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Post by sitelmun on Nov 25, 2011 1:12:03 GMT
If you call yourself an atheist, answer this :
Would you be willing right now to bet the lives of everyone you know that there's nothing after death?
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Post by veks on Nov 25, 2011 1:42:57 GMT
No, I wouldn't take that bet because it isn't possible to know for certain.
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Post by Magilla on Nov 25, 2011 1:57:52 GMT
I agree with Veks. I acknowledge two forms of atheism: strong and weak, (not judgmental terms). The strong atheist says: "There is NO GOD". The weak atheist says: "I don't believe that there is a god".
Being a weak atheist means that I find no good reason to believe that there is a god, nor find any need to posit one into any aspect of my reasoning or view of the universe. Yet I acknowledge that I cannot prove to a certainty the absence of any particular god.
I would not risk other people's lives on my limited human knowledge, but I do accept that if the Abrahamic god exists, then I'll probably be off to hell when I die. On the other hand I'm confident enough in my, (weak), atheism to not let it worry me, and to rationalise that if I'm wrong, I don't deserve hell anyway.
Magilla
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Post by veks on Nov 25, 2011 2:33:32 GMT
I'd also like to add that the terms atheist and atheism only refer to a lack of belief in a god/gods. It has no involvement with a negative assertion toward an afterlife, which means you can have a spiritual atheist that believes in the supernatural or an afterlife, just without a god or gods behind the scenes. A Buddhist atheist is a prime example of this.
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timo
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Post by timo on Nov 25, 2011 5:55:37 GMT
Yeah this is kind of a nonsense argument. I don't claim to be completely sure that there is no god in much the same way that there are theists that aren't completely sure that there is. And as I've said in the other thread, I'm open to the notion that there is evidence out there that could persuade me if I were made aware of it. (Though I doubt it.)
The idea that if you're not completely sure about something means that you're not actually sure is just kind of silly.
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Post by spraidor on Nov 25, 2011 11:39:07 GMT
I've never come across an atheist who would be willing to take such a bet. Their conviction isn't really that strong at all, they just have a vague feeling that there may not be anything else, but the fact that they wouldn't take the bet tells me that on some level they do know that there is something. We all know that there's a god.
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timo
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Post by timo on Nov 25, 2011 15:22:25 GMT
Alright, this is just dumb. And it's obvious how dumb it is if you replace the belief in the afterlife with another example. Let's say we were to ask a married man if he would take that bet, except rather than ask him if he would take that bet with respect to whether or not an afterlife exists, we ask him if he would take that bet with respect to whether or not his wife is cheating. If he's unwilling to take the bet it just mean's he's not 100 percent certain that his wife is faithful. It doesn't mean he actually believes that his wife is cheating on him. I'm really having a hard time believing that you can't see the difference.
And no, my atheism isn't a "vague feeling." As I've said elsewhere, it's a tentative conclusion based on the evidence that is available to me at the moment. There could be convincing evidence that theism is true that's out there. I'm just not aware of any.
But ultimately, I think the fact that you're using the afterlife as an example just demonstrates that you never had a good understanding of atheism in the first place. Atheism isn't a belief system. It has nothing to say about the existence of an afterlife. As someone else has pointed out, there are Buddhist atheists.
Peace
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Post by Darius on Nov 25, 2011 16:25:28 GMT
I would take the bet. I'd bet everything that there is something after so called "death", and I'd do it in an instant. Despite all the atheist bravado and huffing and puffing they wouldn't dream of taking the bet.
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timo
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Post by timo on Nov 25, 2011 19:10:35 GMT
C'mon dude. Do you honestly not understand that there can be such a thing as degrees of certainty? That someone can think that something is probably but not definitely true? Is this really that hard of a concept?
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Bayes
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Post by Bayes on Nov 25, 2011 20:59:55 GMT
If you call yourself an atheist, answer this : Would you be willing right now to bet the lives of everyone you know that there's nothing after death? Atheism is a belief concerning god (that is, that there are none) it doesn't require a particular belief about the afterlife or lack thereof. There are Buddhists who do not believe in any gods but who do believe in reincarnation.
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Post by veks on Nov 25, 2011 21:29:00 GMT
I've never come across an atheist who would be willing to take such a bet. Their conviction isn't really that strong at all, they just have a vague feeling that there may not be anything else, but the fact that they wouldn't take the bet tells me that on some level they do know that there is something. We all know that there's a god. I'd encourage you to read timo's reply, it's spot on. spraidor, you really need to toss the ideas that either atheists are angry with your God or that atheists are really believers just being stubborn. That's not what we are. We're not stubborn, we're skeptical. What's wrong with saying "I don't know"? Because that's my stance on the afterlife. I'm fairly certain since I'm a biological being and my consciousness is derived from biological material, that when that material is gone so is my consciousness. An atheist sincerely lacks a belief in a god.
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Bayes
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Post by Bayes on Nov 25, 2011 23:48:00 GMT
I would take the bet. I'd bet everything that there is something after so called "death", and I'd do it in an instant. Despite all the atheist bravado and huffing and puffing they wouldn't dream of taking the bet. So do it. Die.
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Post by Magilla on Nov 26, 2011 5:46:07 GMT
I've never come across an atheist who would be willing to take such a bet. Their conviction isn't really that strong at all, they just have a vague feeling that there may not be anything else, but the fact that they wouldn't take the bet tells me that on some level they do know that there is something. We all know that there's a god. I think that to find out what atheism is like, you need to ask an atheist, not a theist who's assuming things. WE DO NOT all know that there's a god. The statement: "We all know that there's a god." Assumes what is in question. I do not know that there is a god, and I'm happy with the conclusion that it is highly unlikely that there is one, (of any sort). BTW There are plenty of strong atheists about - those who would be willing to take such a bet. By the way, I mentioned above that I recognised two types of atheist, strong and weak. These are not the only categories of atheist which I recognise - there are others. Magilla
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B
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Post by B on Nov 26, 2011 11:56:49 GMT
I've never come across an atheist who would be willing to take such a bet. Their conviction isn't really that strong at all, they just have a vague feeling that there may not be anything else, but the fact that they wouldn't take the bet tells me that on some level they do know that there is something. We all know that there's a god. I've never come across Christians who would be willing to actually die to see if heaven and hell exist or not. Their religious conviction isn't really that strong at all when they ponder what happens after death. The fact that they extol what happens after death but don't try to hasten to die and instead make up excuses like "God has a mission for me here" tells other people that on some level that they think there is nothing after death. We all know bullshit when we see it.
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Post by xXx_[SSJ] St. Drizzt_xXx on Nov 26, 2011 18:34:04 GMT
If you call yourself an atheist, answer this : Would you be willing right now to bet the lives of everyone you know that there's nothing after death? Yes. If I'm wrong they'd technically still be alive! ;D
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