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Post by thomaseshuis on Feb 12, 2012 9:59:23 GMT
For all the people out there who seem confused about what atheism actually is: It is the lack of belief in gods. Not-theism.
"Let me make this very clear. Atheism is simply and exclusively not believing in gods, deities or divinities. Any attitude, behavior, belief or value apart from that is not, specifically, a function of atheism. This isn't dumbing down the definition of atheism, this is what atheism means. Play with words all you like, but the singular thing in common amongst all atheists is that they don't believe in gods, deities or divinities."
People who claim there are no gods, as in a knowledge claim, are gnostic atheists, not atheists in general.
People who fight or proselytize against religion are anti-theists, nor atheists in general.
Atheism is the lack, absence, not having a belief that there is a god. Nothing more nothing less.
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Post by Worldquest on Feb 12, 2012 14:03:19 GMT
Actually it's a little more than that. By lacking a belief in god, you necessarily, by definition, must have a belief in a godless universe. The word atheism merely refers to what is not believed in, that is the role and purpose of the word. It doesn't refer to what is believed in, but by being an atheist, you do believe in a godless universe.
By the way there's already another thread where this is already being discussed, there's no need for more threads.
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Post by thomaseshuis on Feb 12, 2012 16:03:40 GMT
Actually it's a little more than that. By lacking a belief in god, you necessarily, by definition, must have a belief in a godless universe. Nope. That's a non-sequitur. I can lack a belief in a god or gods, but at the same time believe it is possible that a god or gods exist. I just don't positively believe in one, or more. The word atheism merely refers to what is not believed in, that is the role and purpose of the word. It doesn't refer to what is believed in, but by being an atheist, you do believe in a godless universe. Again this is a complete non-sequitur. By the way there's already another thread where this is already being discussed, there's no need for more threads. I know, but the point is there is no discussion. This is what atheism means. No amount of sophistry or fallacious logic is going to change that.
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Post by Worldquest on Feb 12, 2012 17:20:13 GMT
Hold on. You've missed my point. I said that by virtue of lacking belief in god, you necessarily must believe in a godless universe. I didn't say anything about believing that a god is possible. But if you want to bring that into it, then obviously, by lacking a belief in god, then you necessarily hold a belief in a godless universe, thus demonstrating your belief that a godless universe is possible, seeing as you believe in it.
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Post by thomaseshuis on Feb 12, 2012 19:19:34 GMT
Hold on. You've missed my point. I didn't, your point is logically flawed. I said that by virtue of lacking belief in god, you necessarily must believe in a godless universe. And as I said that is a non-sequitur. Believing in a godless universe excludes the belief that god's could exist. Not believing in any gods does not mean you believe there are none. I didn't say anything about believing that a god is possible. But if you want to bring that into it, then obviously, by lacking a belief in god, then you necessarily hold a belief in a godless universe, thus demonstrating your belief that a godless universe is possible, seeing as you believe in it. Nope, this is nonsensical sophistry.
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Post by Worldquest on Feb 12, 2012 21:28:22 GMT
So you don't believe that god exists, but you don't believe that god doesn't exist. Ok then, I believe that god exists, but I don't believe that it doesn't not exist. And while we're at it, I'm sitting at my computer but that doesn't mean that I'm nowhere else.
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Bayes
Full Member
Posts: 206
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Post by Bayes on Feb 13, 2012 1:24:36 GMT
So you don't believe that god exists, but you don't believe that god doesn't exist. Ok then, I believe that god exists, but I don't believe that it doesn't not exist. And while we're at it, I'm sitting at my computer but that doesn't mean that I'm nowhere else. I don't believe that god exists and I don't believe that god does not exist. I do not know one way or the other. I don't believe that you are in the united states, nor do I believe that you are not. Without more evidence I do not know enough to commit to one position or the other. I do not consider myself an atheist though, I am an agnostic theist, that is I do not know but I choose to behave as if there are deities.
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Post by thomaseshuis on Feb 13, 2012 5:09:09 GMT
So you don't believe that god exists, but you don't believe that god doesn't exist. Ok then, I believe that god exists, but I don't believe that it doesn't not exist. And while we're at it, I'm sitting at my computer but that doesn't mean that I'm nowhere else. This is a contradictory statement. You cannot both positively believe and not believe in the existence of something at the same time. You can not believe in something and be open to the possibility of that thing existing at the same time.
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Post by thomaseshuis on Feb 13, 2012 5:09:59 GMT
So you don't believe that god exists, but you don't believe that god doesn't exist. Ok then, I believe that god exists, but I don't believe that it doesn't not exist. And while we're at it, I'm sitting at my computer but that doesn't mean that I'm nowhere else. I don't believe that god exists and I don't believe that god does not exist. I do not know one way or the other. I don't believe that you are in the united states, nor do I believe that you are not. Without more evidence I do not know enough to commit to one position or the other. I do not consider myself an atheist though, I am an agnostic theist, that is I do not know but I choose to behave as if there are deities. With al due respect a theist is by definition someone who believes in one or more gods. The way you describe yourself you're an agnostic atheist.
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Post by Worldquest on Feb 13, 2012 13:58:43 GMT
I'm just playing by your rules. You want to lack a belief in god, but you don't want to admit that this is because you believe in a godless universe. You want to have your cake and eat it. Fine, so do I.
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Post by pinchbeck on Feb 13, 2012 14:05:15 GMT
Not believing in any gods does not mean you believe there are none. Sure it doesn't.
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Post by thomaseshuis on Feb 13, 2012 15:24:04 GMT
I'm just playing by your rules. No you're not. You're engaging in sophistry. Which you seem to do a lot when you cannot defend your case with actual arguments. You want to lack a belief in god, but you don't want to admit that this is because you believe in a godless universe. You want to have your cake and eat it. Fine, so do I. Nonsense. I don't have a belief in any gods, but neither do I exclude the possibility there are none, ergo I do not believe there a no gods. You can continue to repeat your non-sequitur ad nauseam, it will still be a non-sequitur, a logical fallacy.
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Post by thomaseshuis on Feb 13, 2012 15:24:29 GMT
Not believing in any gods does not mean you believe there are none. Sure it doesn't. Just to make sure, you agree with me?
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Post by Worldquest on Feb 13, 2012 15:27:56 GMT
You believe in the existence of a godless universe. This can also be expressed by saying that you lack a belief in god. I'm sorry but you can't have your cake and eat it. You definitely have a belief.
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Post by thomaseshuis on Feb 13, 2012 15:34:57 GMT
You believe in the existence of a godless universe. Who's claiming omniscience now? I do not believe in a godless universe. Your asinine straw-man attempts won't change that. This can also be expressed by saying that you lack a belief in god. Nope, the only thing that expresses is that you do not have any god(s) you believe in. I'm sorry but you can't have your cake and eat it. You definitely have a belief. I'm sorry but your non-sequitur is still a logically flawed attempt at sophistry.
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